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source http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1161079748185&call_pageid=968256290204&col=968350116795



Province trying to close online gambling loophole
Oct. 18, 2006. 01:00 AM
IAN URQUHART


<!-- icx_story_begin -->We've all seen the ads on television or heard them on the radio: A poker "star" boasts of his conquests and invites us to visit a website where we can gamble with play money.
"It's fun," says the poker star. "It's free."
But upon making the visit, we discover connections to the real thing: a website where we can lay down bets for hard cash, or credit.
It is through such manoeuvring that the website operators continue to find ways to attract new customers, notwithstanding the fact that gambling on the Internet, or advertising of same, is strictly illegal in Canada.
Accordingly, the provincial government plans to move to close the loopholes with a blanket ban on advertising of Internet gambling, direct or indirect.
The ban will be part of an omnibus consumer protection bill to be introduced tomorrow by Government Services Minister Gerry Phillips.
Phillips is essentially adopting, in government legislation, a private member's bill introduced earlier this year by Jeff Leal, Liberal MPP for Peterborough. Leal deserves credit for bringing attention to the issue.
There are good reasons for the government to take this step: Internet gambling is highly addictive because it can be played anonymously around the clock, and it is also accessible to underage players.
But, of course, the province has another reason to curb Internet gambling: It is cutting deeply into the government's share of the take from legal gambling at the casinos and race tracks.
It is hard to know exactly how much money is being drained away from legal gambling by the illegal sites on the Internet; estimates range up to $500 million a year in Ontario.
But this much is known: Revenues for the government-owned Ontario Lotteries and Gaming Corp. (operator of the province's casinos) were down $335 million over the past three years and is forecast to drop another $210 million this year.
Border-crossing problems, the high value of the Canadian dollar, and growing U.S. competition share the blame for this. But there is no doubt that Internet gambling is a factor in the steady decline.
Some argue that Canada should simply follow the lead of other jurisdictions (Britain, for example) and legalize Internet gambling, with governments either operating the sites directly or regulating and taxing them.
But there seems to be little appetite for this option among Canadian jurisdictions.
The Ontario government, for one, has categorically ruled out involvement in the Internet gambling business.
The next option, then, is to fight the scourge.
The problem is that, while illegal, Internet gambling is hard to police, as the sites are based either offshore (Antigua, for example) or, within Canada, at the Mohawk reserve of Kahnawake, outside Montreal.
The United States Congress last month found a way to get at the offshore sites by passing a bill that makes it illegal for American banks to allow their credit cards to be used for online gambling.
Such action is beyond the jurisdiction of a province, however, as Ottawa is responsible for both the Criminal Code and banking. So Ontario is focusing on advertising curbs for now.
But Phillips has written a letter to federal Justice Minister Vic Toews to express his concerns about Internet gambling and appeal to Ottawa to join the fight.
The letter, dated Sept. 28, has a plaintive tone to it as Phillips struggles to capture Toews's attention.
"The government of Ontario considers illegal Internet gaming to be a serious issue," writes Phillips.
"It is clear, however, that illegal Internet gaming represents complex regulatory challenges requiring a co-ordinated effort by provinces and the federal government on several fronts ... I would ask for your support and continued engagement on this issue."
Toews has yet to respond to the letter.
Somewhat surprisingly — given that the federal Conservative government often takes its cues from Washington — a spokesperson for Toews explains that Internet gambling is not a "priority" for the justice minister.
So, the websites will continue to operate with impunity in Canada, but the advertising of them may soon be a little more difficult, at least in Ontario.
A footnote: Phillips's omnibus bill will also contain sections dealing with real estate fraud, outlawing termination dates on gift certificates, and modernizing the provincial archives
 

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Not Canada, just the province of Ontario.

This in no way affects the legality of online betting as that is mandated by the Federal Criminal Code.
 
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Remember people who run gambling in Canada are politicians too so they can call in favors to get stuff like this considered. Problem for these people is the advertising that counts is online to a great degree. No country in the world can really block online advertising.
 

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xpanda said:
Not Canada, just the province of Ontario.

This in no way affects the legality of online betting as that is mandated by the Federal Criminal Code.

(Don't misunderstand me, this is pure crap. I'm heading to Queen's Park tomorrow to check it out in more detail.)

Xpanda , quick question

it doesnt affect it but its already illegal right?

"It is through such manoeuvring that the website operators continue to find ways to attract new customers, notwithstanding the fact that gambling on the Internet, or advertising of same, is strictly illegal in Canada"

it seems (that in the article at least) that internet gambling and advertising are already illegal and now they are just trying to close the loop (the province of Ontario specifically) of advertising 'free sites'

am I reading it correctly?
 

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Yes, taking bets is illegal in Canada. Advertising places that take bets is illegal, too. You're reading it correctly, yes.

This bill does little in the grand scheme of things, except bring the issue to the forefront again.
 
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Homer.
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So, it's illegal but we still bet...

and all those Bowmans ads I hear are illegal too?

wow... we got it rough... haha... let 'em charge me!
 

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quantumleap said:
You mean the US doesn't have the monopoly on political retards??

No, afraid that's a universal phenom.

:howdy:
 

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xpanda said:
Yes, taking bets is illegal in Canada. Advertising places that take bets is illegal, too. You're reading it correctly, yes.


Just to clarify, we tend to be pretty lax here in enforcing laws like this. We're surprisingly high on civil liberties here; I say surprising because we're otherwise quite socialist.

Marijuana is illegal here, too, yet I've never heard a story of anyone arrested or even detained for having a small amount on them.

I see this bill as being more hot air than anything. They might go after the big networks if and where they have jurisdiction, but that's about it. If I opened up a site like the Rx and took advertising, I doubt they'd come after me. And, remember, when it comes to online sites, it's an extremely simple matter to flip from an Ontario business license or server to one in British Columbia or elsewhere.

I would only really be worried about this if I believed the Ontario market comprised a great number of the fish in the marketplace, an that removing the advertising would dramatically affect the number of bettors in the pool. I strongly doubt that is the case.
 

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X-Files said:
I wonder how this will effect casinos in Niagara Falls.
Are they privately owned or government operations?

Government-owned.

SIA is located in Canada, though near Montreal in
another province, Quebec.

SIA is on a Mohawk reserve so falls under its own jurisdiction.
 
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The thing about Canada to remember is, there are no private property laws the way there are in the USA. The Queen owns everything and French is the official language making commerce difficult if not impossible.

They didnt even have a bill of rights until a year or two ago

And to top it off its freezing all the time, rarely gets above 30 degrees even in the summer!!

Why anyone would go there is beyond me

Best Wishes...EF :howdy:
 

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xpanda said:
Yes, taking bets is illegal in Canada. Advertising places that take bets is illegal, too. You're reading it correctly, yes.

xpanda is correct that it is illegal to take and advertise to take bets in CANADA, except for the carved out Provincial authorized casinos, lotteries and horse racing.

However it is not quite that simple. When I place on bet on the internet it is unclear who has jurisdiction. In particular the location where the bet is placed has not been determined by Canada (either by the court or Government). The UK has addressed this question in regulations and a bet placed at a UK regulated book takes place within the UK.

Realistically it makes sense that a bet is placed within the jurisdiction where the book's server resides, since it is actually placed on that machine in their database.
 

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Woody0 said:
xpanda is correct that it is illegal to take and advertise to take bets in CANADA, except for the carved out Provincial authorized casinos, lotteries and horse racing.

However it is not quite that simple. When I place on bet on the internet it is unclear who has jurisdiction. In particular the location where the bet is placed has not been determined by Canada (either by the court or Government). The UK has addressed this question in regulations and a bet placed at a UK regulated book takes place within the UK.

Realistically it makes sense that a bet is placed within the jurisdiction where the book's server resides, since it is actually placed on that machine in their database.

Exactly. This same reasoning applies to an online Ontario-based company affected by this bill ... simply put your site - and, thus, your advertising - on a server out-of-province and the jurisdiction becomes unclear.

Now, if the bill carves out rules about taking revenue from online gambling sites, that may be a different story. Though I'm not sure if the provinces have the authority to rule on that, anyway.
 
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EverFresh said:
The thing about Canada to remember is, there are no private property laws the way there are in the USA. The Queen owns everything and French is the official language making commerce difficult if not impossible.

They didnt even have a bill of rights until a year or two ago

And to top it off its freezing all the time, rarely gets above 30 degrees even in the summer!!

Why anyone would go there is beyond me

Best Wishes...EF :howdy:

I was telling an american that I was originally from Montreal and am living in Vancouver now...

Him: Is it far from Montreal to Vancouver?

Me: Sorta like LA to New York

Him: What? That's impossible! Canada isn't that big!!

Me: Uh, Canada is the second largest country in the world (it was at the time)

Him: Oh, so it's second to the US?

Me: No.. the USSR is the largest country and Canada is second..

Him: No way, you could fit Canada inside Texas!

Me: No.. but you could probably fit Texas in a few of the provinces in Canada...

Him: That's impossible, Texas is the biggest state!

Me: No... Alaska is the biggest state..

Him: That's silly, hardly anyone lives in Alaska!

At that point I gave up...

And he was a US Senator...
<!-- / message -->
 

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When I was living in Victoria (ages and ages ago) met an American couple who had rented a car, told me they were heading to Montreal for the day, and did I know how to get there. I told them to head down the road, turn left at such-and-such and just keep going.

Honest to god, how do people like that get dressed in the morning?
 

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xpanda said:
Marijuana is illegal here, too, yet I've never heard a story of anyone arrested or even detained for having a small amount on them.

A Small amount? Like 3 grow houses? Someone MIGHT get probation, usually the police chop it down and say don't do it again...allegedly
 

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